The Perl Toolchain Summit needs more sponsors. If your company depends on Perl, please support this very important event.
From london.pm-admin@london.pm.org Tue Mar 11 10:03:04 2003
Return-Path: <london.pm-admin@london.pm.org>
Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk
	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.1)
	for richardc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:03:04 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for richardc@mirth.demon.co.uk
          id 1047372076:20:09615:18; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:41:16 GMT
Received: from penderel.state51.co.uk ([193.82.57.128]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net
           id aa2008852; 11 Mar 2003 8:40 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=penderel.state51.co.uk)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18sfF0-00049Z-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:36:06 +0000
Received: from cat.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.153])
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18sfEk-000498-00
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:35:50 +0000
Received: from abw by cat.ourshack.com with local (Exim 4.05)
	id 18sfIO-000FHw-00
	for london.pm@london.pm.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:39:36 +0000
From: Andy Wardley <abw@andywardley.com>
To: london.pm@london.pm.org
Subject: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Message-ID: <20030311083936.GB26176@cat.ourshack.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i
Sender: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
Errors-To: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
X-BeenThere: london.pm@london.pm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: london.pm@london.pm.org
List-Help: <mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:london.pm@london.pm.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers <london.pm.london.pm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/>
X-Original-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:39:36 +0000
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:39:36 +0000
Status: RO
Content-Length: 119

In case you haven't already seen it, Apocalypse 6 is out.

  http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/03/07/apocalypse6.html

A


From london.pm-admin@london.pm.org Tue Mar 11 10:03:17 2003
Return-Path: <london.pm-admin@london.pm.org>
Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk
	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.1)
	for richardc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:03:17 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for richardc@mirth.demon.co.uk
          id 1047376968:10:08748:9; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:02:48 GMT
Received: from penderel.state51.co.uk ([193.82.57.128]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net
           id ab1119973; 11 Mar 2003 10:02 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=penderel.state51.co.uk)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18sgF4-0004iq-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:40:14 +0000
Received: from mx1.fotango.com ([195.157.53.90])
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18sgEk-0004iD-00
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:39:54 +0000
Received: from cowgirl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by mx1.fotango.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2B9hPS6003269
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:43:25 GMT
Received: from 192.168.1.26 (piezo [192.168.1.26])
	by cowgirl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0514329E3
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:48:19 +0000 (GMT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: blech@husk.org
Message-Id: <f05200f00ba93600e2e7a@10.0.0.250>
In-Reply-To: <20030311083936.GB26176@cat.ourshack.com>
References: <20030311083936.GB26176@cat.ourshack.com>
To: london.pm@london.pm.org
From: Paul Mison <paulm@husk.org>
Subject: Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Sender: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
Errors-To: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
X-BeenThere: london.pm@london.pm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: london.pm@london.pm.org
List-Help: <mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:london.pm@london.pm.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers <london.pm.london.pm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/>
X-Original-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:43:42 +0000
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:43:42 +0000
Status: RO
Content-Length: 229

On 11/03/2003 at 08:39 +0000, Andy Wardley wrote:
>In case you haven't already seen it, Apocalypse 6 is out.
>
>   http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/03/07/apocalypse6.html

And Apocalypse 7, too.

-- 
:: paul
:: we're like crystal


From london.pm-admin@london.pm.org Tue Mar 11 12:41:18 2003
Return-Path: <london.pm-admin@london.pm.org>
Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk
	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.1)
	for richardc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:41:18 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for richardc@mirth.demon.co.uk
          id 1047383462:10:24349:155; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:51:02 GMT
Received: from penderel.state51.co.uk ([193.82.57.128]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net
           id aa1025599; 11 Mar 2003 11:50 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=penderel.state51.co.uk)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18shyN-0005YR-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:31:07 +0000
Received: from post.tobit.co.uk ([212.240.163.99])
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18shxp-0005Y1-00
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:30:33 +0000
Received: from [192.168.242.37] (helo=[192.168.242.37])
	by post.tobit.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 18si1S-0006l0-00
	for london.pm@london.pm.org; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:34:18 +0000
Subject: Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
From: Dirk Koopman <djk@tobit.co.uk>
To: london.pm@london.pm.org
In-Reply-To: <f05200f00ba93600e2e7a@10.0.0.250>
References: <20030311083936.GB26176@cat.ourshack.com>
	 <f05200f00ba93600e2e7a@10.0.0.250>
Content-Type: text/plain
Organization: Tobit Computer Co Ltd, http://www.tobit.co.uk
Message-Id: <1047382472.1875.19.camel@dirk2.int.tobit.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: -27.5 (---------------------------)
X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18si1S-0006l0-00*icHIpDgt7y6*
Sender: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
Errors-To: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
X-BeenThere: london.pm@london.pm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: london.pm@london.pm.org
List-Help: <mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:london.pm@london.pm.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers <london.pm.london.pm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/>
X-Original-Date: 11 Mar 2003 11:34:32 +0000
Date: 11 Mar 2003 11:34:32 +0000
Status: RO
Content-Length: 693

I realise that I am an old and useless programmer, a dinosaur even, but
is all this going to add up to a language that is:-

a) easier to learn
b) faster both to parse and execute
c) still something that could reasonably be called perl?

Dirk

On Tue, 2003-03-11 at 09:43, Paul Mison wrote:
> On 11/03/2003 at 08:39 +0000, Andy Wardley wrote:
> >In case you haven't already seen it, Apocalypse 6 is out.
> >
> >   http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/03/07/apocalypse6.html
> 
> And Apocalypse 7, too.
-- 
Please Note: Some Quantum Physics Theories Suggest That When the
Consumer Is Not Directly Observing This Product, It May Cease to
Exist or Will Exist Only in a Vague and Undetermined State.




From london.pm-admin@london.pm.org Tue Mar 11 12:41:17 2003
Return-Path: <london.pm-admin@london.pm.org>
Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk
	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.1)
	for richardc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:41:17 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for richardc@mirth.demon.co.uk
          id 1047384983:20:01221:83; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:16:23 GMT
Received: from penderel.state51.co.uk ([193.82.57.128]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net
           id ab2125275; 11 Mar 2003 12:15 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=penderel.state51.co.uk)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18si88-0005fk-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:41:12 +0000
Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45])
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18si7j-0005fJ-00
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:40:47 +0000
Received: from quietstars.com ([62.252.188.133]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP
          id <20030311114436.MFSZ3525.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@quietstars.com>
          for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:44:36 +0000
Subject: Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551)
From: Adrian Howard <adrianh@quietstars.com>
To: london.pm@london.pm.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <1047382472.1875.19.camel@dirk2.int.tobit.co.uk>
Message-Id: <D4CA215C-53B6-11D7-8510-0030654E40D0@quietstars.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551)
Sender: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
Errors-To: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
X-BeenThere: london.pm@london.pm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: london.pm@london.pm.org
List-Help: <mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:london.pm@london.pm.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers <london.pm.london.pm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/>
X-Original-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:44:34 +0000
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:44:34 +0000
Status: RO
Content-Length: 700

On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 11:34  am, Dirk Koopman wrote:

> I realise that I am an old and useless programmer, a dinosaur even, but
> is all this going to add up to a language that is:-
>
> a) easier to learn

Not any harder anyway. There's more to learn obviously because there is 
more functionality.

> b) faster both to parse and execute

Yup. Lots more room for optimisation with declaration of args and the 
more complex typing.

> c) still something that could reasonably be called perl?

I think so from what I've seen. Your milage may vary.

You also forgot:

	d) more useful

Which, for me, is a resounding "Hell yeah!". I want macros, 
multimethods and methodsubs *now* :-)

Adrian



From london.pm-admin@london.pm.org Tue Mar 11 14:50:17 2003
Return-Path: <london.pm-admin@london.pm.org>
Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk
	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.1)
	for richardc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:50:17 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for richardc@mirth.demon.co.uk
          id 1047392543:10:27211:26; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:22:23 GMT
Received: from penderel.state51.co.uk ([193.82.57.128]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net
           id aa1117029; 11 Mar 2003 14:21 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=penderel.state51.co.uk)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18skW7-00072d-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:14:07 +0000
Received: from mail.webbox.com ([207.231.76.69])
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18skVU-0006vx-00
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:13:28 +0000
Received: from mdev [207.183.234.66] by mail.webbox.com
  (SMTPD32-6.06) id A09253DB0154; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:20:02 -0800
To: london.pm@london.pm.org
CC: 
From: "Dave Cross" <dave@dave.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Message-Id: <11030370.22639@webbox.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Sender: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
Errors-To: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
X-BeenThere: london.pm@london.pm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: london.pm@london.pm.org
List-Help: <mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:london.pm@london.pm.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers <london.pm.london.pm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/>
X-Original-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:20:04 -0800
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:20:04 -0800
Status: RO
Content-Length: 314


From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 3/11/03 1:30:51 PM

> Will the llama and alpaca for perl6 be easier or harder to
> read?

alpaca?

Am I missing something here?

Dave...

-- 
<http://www.dave.org.uk>

"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)





From london.pm-admin@london.pm.org Tue Mar 11 14:59:04 2003
Return-Path: <london.pm-admin@london.pm.org>
Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk
	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.1)
	for richardc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:59:04 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for richardc@mirth.demon.co.uk
          id 1047394517:10:25799:67; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:55:17 GMT
Received: from penderel.state51.co.uk ([193.82.57.128]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net
           id aa1125596; 11 Mar 2003 14:54 GMT
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=penderel.state51.co.uk)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18skpT-0007Ju-00; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:34:07 +0000
Received: from red.stonehenge.com ([65.208.40.162] ident=postfix)
	by penderel.state51.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 18skoq-0007J8-00
	for <london.pm@london.pm.org>; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:33:29 +0000
Received: by red.stonehenge.com (Postfix, from userid 1001)
	id E44468250F; Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:37:19 -0800 (PST)
To: london.pm@london.pm.org
Subject: Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
References: <11030370.22639@webbox.com>
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
In-Reply-To: <11030370.22639@webbox.com>
Message-ID: <86fzpu3r6o.fsf@red.stonehenge.com>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
Errors-To: london.pm-admin@london.pm.org
X-BeenThere: london.pm@london.pm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: london.pm@london.pm.org
List-Help: <mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:london.pm@london.pm.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers <london.pm.london.pm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm>,
	<mailto:london.pm-request@london.pm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/>
X-Original-Date: 11 Mar 2003 06:37:19 -0800
Date: 11 Mar 2003 06:37:19 -0800
Status: RO
Content-Length: 963
Lines: 29

>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Cross <dave@dave.org.uk> writes:

Dave> From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Dave> Date: 3/11/03 1:30:51 PM

>> Will the llama and alpaca for perl6 be easier or harder to
>> read?

Dave> alpaca?

Dave> Am I missing something here?


Well, O'Reilly probably doesn't want me to scoop them in public, but
I'm in the final edit phase of

        Learning Perl Objects, References, and Modules

which is the sequel in form and function to the Llama.  And yes, it'll
have an alpaca on the cover.  It's the textbook for our 4-day class
that follows the llama course.  Exercises with answers, and jokes.

Expected debut at the OSCON this summer.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!